Beyond the Uniform

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BTU #91 - Seth Jordan: Marines to Founder of Dog Tag Brewing

Justin Nassiri
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“I wanted to use something that I thought was special that was tied to my Marine Corps time, which is the celebratory nature of using beer as a way to give back. And I'm proud to say that this grew into a movement, and we're excited about the work that we do."– Seth Jordan

Seth Jordan is the Founder & Chairman of Dog Tag Brewing Foundation, a brewery that provides the highest quality crafted beers that deliver a message of gratitude for the selfless sacrifice of our nation’s military. Dog Tag Brewing donates 100% of profits to benefit charities created or selected by Gold Star Families,the families of fallen warriors.

He graduated from Clemson University in South Carolina and went to work for ESPN in New York City, but felt compelled to serve after 9/11. He served as an officer in the Marine Corps for nearly 10 years as a Naval Aviator and UH-1 Helicopter pilot with over 250 combat missions flown. He started Dog Tag Brewing after leaving the Marine Corps.

The top reason to listen to this episode is:

  1. Support - Seth established a Brewery where all of the profits go to supporting veteran families and the causes they believe in. It's a great example of using one's career for a purpose greater than oneself

  2. Entrepreneurship - Seth talks about starting a business, a brewery, and a foundation all at the same time

  3. Mentors - Seth does a great job of talking about how to find and learn from mentors as veterans pursue their civilian career

Our Sponsor:

  • Audible is offering one FREE audio book to Beyond the Uniform listeners. You can claim this offer here, and see a list of books recommended by my guests at BeyondTheUniform.io/books

Selected Links

Show Notes

  • 3:45 - Seth's Background

  • 4:30 - Seth's decision to join the Military from the civilian sector

  • 5:22 - Seth's decision to leave the Marine Corps

  • 6:28 - When Seth first started to think about starting his own brewery

  • 8:04 - Seth's decision to donate all profits he makes to help veteran causes

  • 12:27 - What it was like to start a brewery and advice to other veterans seeking to start their own company

  • 16:52 - Advice for veterans seeking a mentor - how to find them and evaluate when to bring them on in a more formal capacity

  • 22:00 - How often Seth meets with this mentors and advisors

  • 24:16 - What Seth's day-to-day life looks like

  • 27:16 - Advice on finding work-life balance

  • 31:24 - The most valuable skill Seth took away from the Marine Corps that has helped him at Dog Tag Brewing

  • 32:12 - One skill that Seth had to develop since leaving the Marine Corps

  • 33:50 - What advice Seth would have given to himself when he first left the Marine Corps

  • 39:37 - Resources Seth recommends to all veterans

  • 44:00 - Final words of wisdom

  • 47:50 - Where you can find out more about Dog Tag Brewing and how you can support Seth and his mission

Text Transcript

Justin Nassiri  

Welcome back to beyond the uniform. I'm Justin Nassiri and each week I interview military veterans about their civilian career. Today's episode number 91 with Dog Tag Brewing founder Seth Jordan.


Seth Jordan  

I wanted to use something that I thought was special and tied to my Marine Corps time, which is a kind of a celebratory nature of using beer as a way to give back. And then a problem to say that this kind of grew into a movement and we're excited about the work that we do.


Justin Nassiri  

Well, deep down inside, I think almost every veteran thinks or dreams of starting their own brewery. And Seth, my guest today, actually did it. What's even cooler though is when he set up Dog Tag Brewing, he set it up in a way where all of the profits 100% are donated towards causes that support military families. And he set it up in a way where, as he'll explain, it's donated to the nonprofits that those people choose. So I know a lot you're probably drawn to the title about the brewery. I think you're going to learn a lot more about giving back, about philanthropy. But a couple of reasons why I think you'll enjoy this episode. It is big on entrepreneurship. A couple things that I remember from our interview. He just does a great job of talking about mentorship. And regardless of what fields you go into, mentors are so valuable with helping you learn, asking you challenging questions, helping you stay ahead. And as Seth points out, helping you make smaller mistakes. And so he talks about how to find those mentors, how to really leverage them effectively. He talks about work, work-life balance, about turning off at home and staying fully present when you're there, about delegation, about resilience, about how there's this tendency to rush into things when you get out of the military and some things he wished he had done differently. Also just about getting involved in philanthropy early on, right as soon as you leave the military, and how that fills in a lot of the connections that a lot of us miss, and surprisingly teaches you a lot about business. For those of you who like this episode, three episodes came to mind while I was speaking with Seth. The first is episode number 60 with Matt Miller, who talks about founding a vending machine empire, and Matt and Seth share this thread of building a company in order to build the life they want for their family. Episode number 71 with Jeff Tiegs, he talks about the Guardian group and how he is using his skills to give back in a way that Seth I believe is giving back with his business. And then lastly, episode number 38 with Chris Shaw, who is that Bunker Labs Jeff. Seth talks about how Bunker Labs is a great resource that's worth checking out as well. There's show notes at beyondtheuniform.io, you'll find resources and links to everything we discussed here, Dog Tag Brewing, all the books, all the podcast we mentioned. For those of you who are listening who like audio books and who want to take advantage of that time spent driving, running, or working out, you can check out beyondtheuniform.IO/books, where you'll see a free offer from audible.com. You will get as a beyond the uniform listener, a free audiobook. In today's episode, Seth references a book called Rocket Fuel that he recommends for all entrepreneurs, you can get that book for free with this offer. So with that, let's dive in to my interview with Seth Jordan.


Well, joining me today in Bozeman, Montana is Seth Jordan. Seth, Welcome to Beyond the Uniform.


Seth Jordan  

Well, thank you. Thanks for having me.


Justin Nassiri  

So for listeners, I want to give you a quick background on Seth. He is the founder and president of Dog Tag Brewing, a brewery that provides the highest quality crafted beers to deliver a message of gratitude for the selfless sacrifice of our nation's military. He's set this up so that proceeds from Dog Tag Brewing sales are donated to causes determined by the families of fallen warriors. Seth started out at Clemson University in South Carolina. He went to work for ESPN in New York, but felt compelled to serve after 9/11. And then he served as an officer in the Marine Corps for almost 10 years as a naval aviator and UH-1 helicopter pilot with over 250 combat missions. And he started Dog Tag Brewing after leaving the Marine Corps. So Seth, maybe to start off, I'd love to learn about what caused you to join the Marine Corps in the first place.


Seth Jordan  

I always felt the desire to serve. And I think that living and working in New York City and having lived within a block of the World Trade Center, being there in the city that day, just really cemented my decision to the server hierarchy calling. And it was a blessing that the town I grew up in the greater Newport Rhode Island area, which was a lot of my friends, fathers had served, you know, both in the Marine Corps in the Navy, so it exposed me to it a little bit. But after 9/11, it was really what I thought was really the next step for me.


Justin Nassiri  

And during that 10 years in the Marine Corps, at what point did you know you were going to leave the military? And how did you approach that decision?


Seth Jordan  

I think for many of us, you never know. I think for me, personally, and I can only speak for myself, for years, I loved it, I really did. I loved my time in and I believed in the mission that we did, being a pilot, and also I mentioned I was a JTAC. So, I just loved our work. And it was always about helping others, and you can always see those results. But, as you know, multiple combat tours, a lot of time away from family, flying is inherently a very dangerous business. And I, I felt for me personally, that I'd set some goals and I achieved them in those 10 years. And for me, it was about what potentially could be next. And that was a combined decision with my mom about starting a new life.


Justin Nassiri  

At what point did you decide or even think of starting your own brewery? Was it just a long time ambition? How did you come up with that idea?


Seth Jordan  

Yeah, because I had worked right out of college for a big company in New York City, and combine that with nearly a decade of service in the Marine Corps, I knew I just wanted to work for myself. I always kind of had the entrepreneur bug. And I always wanted to find a way to combine the service, my experience in the Marine Corps, with something that could be to give back. And the vision for Dog Tag was started early as, "how can we create something that was designed to help others?" And we did a lot of research and kind of mimicked the model that was very similar to the late actor Paul Newman, who created Newman's Own and its own foundation, which are products where his MO was to give it all away and kind of wanted to use something that I thought was special and tied to my Marine Corps time, which is kind of a celebratory nature of using beer as a way to give back and and then I’m proud to say that this grew into a movement. We're excited about the work that we do through the product. But really through the work that we do through the foundation, the Dog Tag Brewing Foundation, which is a 501(c)3 charity that actually executes on that work.


Justin Nassiri  

And let's go into that. I just love that concept. I'm really blown away that you've set this up so that all the all the profit from your company goes to not just help veteran causes, but you even put the power in the hands of the families who have lost that loved one in the military. And for listeners who aren't familiar with Dog Tag Brewing and the Foundation, what would you like them to know about this organization you've created?


Seth Jordan  

Yeah, the foundation is the bread and butter, right? I mean, the beer is just the the tool to provide the awareness revenue for the work that we ultimately want to do through the 501(c)3, through the charity, whose mission is to support and enhance Gold Star family initiatives. And what that means in simple terms is that it Gold Star family member, which is someone who's lost a loved one and service to our nation has something special that they are trying to do, to honor their loved ones memory and to use their pain and try to turn it into purpose. But largely, they do this alone, sometimes without the guidance and tools to be successful. And for us what we're trying to be as that backstop or that resource to provide not only financial grants, but free consulting and advisory services for those charities. And those causes that are designed to live on their loved ones name and to do good in their community. And I think everyone if I may, can get behind supporting the work of these families. And again, none of them had ever asked for this, but they feel compelled to do something in their loved ones names. And I think if anyone has any external answer any of your listeners or have any experience with nonprofits, it's tough. And it's a lot of work. And I think that the families enjoy knowing that we're bringing some resources that they that they have asked for, and they appreciate it.


Justin Nassiri  

That's awesome. When I think of startups, when I think of a founder, I always think of some element of being driven by money. Someone trying to strike it rich, someone trying to start the latest .com and just trying to blow up.  I'm wondering, was it hard for you to to set this up as something where it's so philanthropically driven? Was it hard for you to make that decision to make this oriented towards helping others rather than striking it rich? Like most people who started a company?


Seth Jordan  

I think that for us the decision was simple. I mean, for 10 years of service we are wearing the uniform, we come from a world where we say, “we.” And I think that was very easy. It was like, “Hey, how do I do something special, where I can take care of me, my family, and especially others with the work that we do?”  And that came to a decision that I wanted to spend my adult life helping others. So whether that was in uniform, or when we got out. But to answer your question, this was this one step of many different things that I hope to do in my own personal life. But the work of this foundation would be kind of our gift to create awareness for something that most Gold Star families can resonate with, which is the fact that the term Gold Star family is relatively unknown. We're excited to do our little part to shed light on them, on the term and what it means. The work that they do to provide financial resources and the resources in terms of advisory pieces so that their charities can be special. I mean, it was a no-brainer for us, hopefully, that resonates not only with veterans, but all red-blooded Americans who believe in their communities.


Justin Nassiri  

That's awesome. Now, that's really, really inspiring. I'm curious about starting the brewery and I'm thinking right now of maybe a veteran who's out or maybe someone who's on active duty who aspires to either start a brewery or just start their own company. And I'd love to learn about your story, of how you tactically went about starting the brewery, and in particular, anything you learned in starting a business that you'd want veteran listeners to know?


Seth Jordan  

Yeah, sure. Starting a business, whether it's like you said, beer or beverage related, it starts with some hard work, right? You got to make a commitment to doing the research, a lot of due diligence, understanding what's in the industry. When you're making any decision to try to get into something, I think what the big thing that all veterans need when, especially with starting a business, is a mentor. You really need to have someone who has gone before you, who's ready to lend his or her experience. And I think that was the one thing that I did well, that I can say that I would provide advice others was that just like, as a young Marine Corps officer, you're only as good as the people around you, and surround yourself with others to make the combined effort special. Something that we learned that it's no different in business. And I would offer advice to anybody who's trying started on business is that you can't do it alone, you got to find others to her willing to, to provide that kind of basically lending themselves to you to ask the right amount in the most appropriate questions. And then from there, I asked folks to put them on advisory boards to help provide a backdrop for asking questions. And then also to make sure that I wasn't going down a path that would be detrimental not only financially, but just also with time, which to me, I think is the hardest thing. And the other big piece of advice I would give was, where I was very fortunate and was very unexpected, was to get involved with philanthropy early, you know, I had this vision for it. But I also the same time when I got affected duty, got involved with an organization that provided trips and resources for some of the most severely injured veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan, and brought them up here to the beauty of Montana. I took a white guy to fly fishing tours, and really worked with them, getting them kind of ready for the next stages of their life in a post-injury environment. And for me, philanthropy just changes your heart, right. So you come from a hardened world in the Marine Corps, and you're in this world where you're always tough and you're never vulnerable. Because you never really realized that because you're surrounded by the guys and gals that you you work with every day. But when you get out in your own, sometimes you feel like that you’re, “out on your own.” And I think philanthropy, getting involved with philanthropic projects, is something that only do you feel like you're part of a “mission,” again, you're part of a team, you have access to other resources, it gets you tied into the pulse of the community. And then more importantly, I use that opportunity to also build those mentors that I described earlier, people who were very, very successful in business in different fields and their connections and their expertise was something that was invaluable to me. And I think that that didn't just happen by luck, it happened because of the work and using that to network, which, again, I think is something that is a challenge for veterans, because, I think the word networking almost seems like a kind of a sleazy word. But honestly, it's building relationships. And I think that you use that to your advantage. So you can make better decisions just like you would when you were in the service, you want to make sure that when you’re making a decision that you're well informed, and that you have the support of others to accomplish that goal. Hopefully, that makes sense.


Justin Nassiri  

That's great, man. I mean, it completely resonates with me, that thought is you can't do it alone. And I'd love to dig in on this advice. Because I think it's really spot on. I'm wondering, for veterans who are seeking a mentor. So you talked about meeting them through this philanthropy, through getting involved in community. I'm wondering what other advice do you have on how to find a mentor? And then also, at what point do you make that decision of trying to bring them on in more of a formal role?  And how to know if they're a good fit? Because I'm curious if you went out, and was it that you met someone and you're like, this person has a lot I could learn from? Or was it more of, “these are the five things that I need to learn about, and therefore, I'm going to find someone who knows one of these five things,” if that makes sense.


Seth Jordan  

Yeah, let me scratch behind the surface a little bit about more fidelity on my personal experience. I got off active duty, had this plan, but didn't really know how to enact it. And by chance, I told a friend about what I was thinking and had this idea for this business model, this plan, and it was just the scenario here about bar, this gentleman was like, “Well, you know, you need to talk to this guy.” And, of course, I was introduced to that individual, and he sat down, he was very excited to help and listen. And I think what I would say to your listeners is that being a veteran helps, okay, so we already have things like integrity, honor, courage, and it's one of those things where people want to help you. Okay, I don't use the word take advantage. But I use that opportunity that was presented to myself and met this individual, and just through coffee really exposed a different way of thinking. But the reality was asking questions, and what he was saying is, what's next, and what's next, and what's next. And what he did with me was, he came to me and said, Listen, normally, I charge 500 bucks an hour for this, and I'm happy to get coffee with you once a week for the next couple months. And just to make sure pushing you in the right direction, and did he have alternative motives for, hey, if we became successful, maybe he would invest or being be involved with the work that we do, who knows. But at the end of the day, he provided me with a lot of lessons and a lot of coaching that really pushed me in the right direction. And the next thing that I'll offer was doing some research, I found three individuals in the beer industry that were kind of a who's who they were the burning bush subject matter experts in the industry, I had stock them for better last better, less than a word to say, Hey, can you help me, we need some help. And because of my background, because of being a Marine, they wanted to, and from there, it just opened up almost every single door that we needed to get unlocked and open. And again, that's kind of like a short short version of what had taken place over the problem the course of a year. But again, that's my story. And I would recommend others to go find the most appropriate people that can lend their expertise, and then also “open those doors” for others.


Justin Nassiri  

And I appreciate in your story the willingness to ask for help, the willingness to take people up on those offers. And even when you're talking, I can hear how you talked about how networking often feels off for veterans. And then also, I forget how you put it, this sense of using the military background, or using the uniform, can be difficult for a lot of veterans. And I think that's true. And so I like that in your story. You found these people and you're willing to accept help. And I think that that's a learning point, sometimes for veterans to be open to that and not feeling bad about saying, “yeah, I was in the military,” that can open up doors and being open to letting that door open rather than resisting it.


Seth Jordan  

Yeah, I mean, again, it's no different from your time in the service, right? I mean, there's not one person who accomplishes a mission by themselves. I can't think of one particular instance, in my 10 years of both in combat, in a garrison, a task is to put in front of you, and you accomplish it by yourself. It's unrealistic. It's the same thing in business. So I think a lot of times, veterans become a little bit too over reliant on their uniform and the past experience. And I think that that would lead to a lot of frustrations. I think that they need to have a healthy balance, understanding where they came from, but have a clear plan of where they want to go and to never lose sight of their of their service. But to make sure that that continues to provide kind of a compass for where they want to go.


Justin Nassiri  

That's great. And one other question I had with the mentorship is, I I'm sure it varies by the person and by the stage of the company, but how often do you meet with your mentors or with your advisors? I know that entrepreneurship can be all consuming. And sometimes there might be that desire to just get as much as possible from people. And so I'm wondering what sort of cadence you set for meeting with them and for having to be able to ask those questions that will help guide guide you in running the company.


Seth Jordan  

Yeah, I think the answer is not enough. But also not too much, right? So for me, I think I'm guilty, just as much as anyone is, about not using my time properly, to make sure that I'm keeping those advisors informed well enough so that they can actually provide good guidance, but at the same time, be respectful of their time, which I think is one of the probably the biggest reasons why mentors, people who are perceived as mentors, don't or afraid to lend themselves as a quote unquote, mentor to others. Because people who are very successful, the thing that they value most is not money, it's their time, and they want to make sure that they're actually providing something of value to you, just like you want to be making sure that you are receiving something of value. So for example, I have seen for the foundation, and I'm the chairman of the board for the for the 501(c)3. But we also have a National Advisory Board who are individuals who want to lend their name and advice to the work that we do, and you got to be very respectful of who they are, and how busy they are. But at the same time, you can't burn them by not keeping them in the loop. So if this sounds familiar, it's just like the military, right? If you want to continue to do well, you got to make sure that the folks below you and above you, who you report to, and who you're responsible to, are all in the loop. And I would say, just be conscious of the time on the phone,  be very respectful of the time for those people who want to lend it to you. And I think if you use it right, they'll take care of you.


Justin Nassiri  

That's great. I think it's always helpful for listeners to hear about that tangible feel of what your day to day life looks like as an entrepreneur. And so I'm wondering, if you think back, to let's just say, last week, if you were to pick a random day from last week, could you just walk us through what your day was like, with the intention of providing listeners just a glimpse into the life of an entrepreneur or the life of someone who runs a foundation in the brewery?


Seth Jordan  

Aas an entrepreneur, think of ADD and how to combat that. I say that kind of tongue-in-cheek, but you have so much going on, on your plate. And sometimes you'll feel like you're all over the place, but at the end of the day, for lack of a better word, you're the CEO, right? So you're the CEO, you're responsible for a lot of different things you're not necessarily delegating. Because usually, in a startup, you don't have those resources, you don't have the personnel or the financial resources to get a lot of things done. Sometimes you have to do it yourself. So time management is of the utmost importance, right? If you can't, you're going to be doing things really late all the time, at odd hours. And again, back to the question we were talking about before, I think the hardest thing for entrepreneurs is understanding balance. I'll put this in this conversation, ironically, did come up last week. And I think the challenge that entrepreneurs have, especially with veterans who have been deployed, right? You're there by yourself, you leave your family behind, you're downrange, you're in the mission, your head is in the game, you're getting everything done. Now imagine that same scenario where you're in a combat scenario where your family's there, maybe you got your wife and maybe a couple kids running around and we're in the LSA where you guys bed down every night, and you got to get the mission done, you got to prepare for the next day, you got X, Y, and Z. And then next thing you know, your family comes in, like, “Hey, can we can we just hang out, maybe watch Netflix?” And you want to do those things. But the same time, you know that you're responsible for all the work in the success of your organization or your company. And I think that that's a hard thing. So not that I'm trying to say, I'm trying to pit mission success versus family. But I think where entrepreneurs have a tough time or don't do well, is they'll focus on the work, but sometimes they forget about family. And I'm just as guilty of that. That's my advice for others when they get into this line of work to be very cognizant of that. Again, a quick plug, I hear a lot of folks that want to go into business together with their spouse or their family. And I would advise against that just because I think it's a tough situation when things don't go well.


Justin Nassiri  

Have you found any tips that work well for that? Because I really live for that, the work life balance piece, I completely relate with that. I've heard that from other entrepreneurs as well. And I'm wondering what has helped you know when to shift from one to the other? Or when to back off on work and focus on families? Or any anything that's been particularly helpful for you and doing that?


Seth Jordan  

I I'll tell you what, I'll make a plug for a book that I read that was brought to my attention by others. This book is a book called Rocket Fuel, and it doesn't the difference between visionaries and integrators, which are the people who actually get it done and suddenly they're never the same and I think that a lot of it just it really does talk about the division of labor who's supposed to do what and when where tiebreakers occur. Battle rhythms, so kind of like your your work plan and how to get through things. Not that that has all the answers but I would make up that plug to any aspiring entrepreneur to read that book. But then to answer your question, one of the things that I just came to came to the conclusion was that when you go home, you got to just turn it off. And when you say turn it off, I mean, turn it off. Like, don't just “I'm only going to check text messages,” “I'm only going to do this,” unless you have like an A major emergency. And just be upfront with your family member, like, “Hi, I have a real issue and got to make sure I have the phone on.” But when it's time to go home and sit down to dinner, or just spend time with your loved ones, spend that time and turn your phone off. Don't be checking it. Don't be there but not there. And I use that term, because I've been guilty of that. My wife has said that where you're sitting down to dinner, she's talking to you. But deep down she knows you’re “not there.” Because you're thinking about something else. Do yourself a favor, learn how to turn it off. It's not like your business will fail in one night. Because you didn't do X, Y or Z learn how to manage that. I think the biggest piece of advice is how to stay ahead constantly.What if you recall from the beginning of this conversation where I was with that mentor that established venture capitalists who just had been exposed to a lot of different businesses and said, You have to always ask yourself, what's next. And I think if you ask yourself, what's next, you're using your time wisely. So you can stay ahead of the issues. And then when you make mistakes, you're going to make them small, which is the most important thing when you're starting a new business as well.


Justin Nassiri  

Yeah, I love that thought of just trying to be fully present, like fully present work fully present at home, making that an on/off switch. I think that's like great, great advice. And I also really love that thought of trying to always anticipate what's next and focusing on on on making the smaller mistakes, even though like mistakes are inevitable, but maybe making them smaller through just trying to stay ahead of issues. I think that's really, really sound advice.


Seth Jordan  

Yeah, can I make one more? Yeah, little nugget there. Again, I'm saying these things, and I should take my own advice. But, one of the other things i making sure that you can delegate as appropriate, sometimes you just have to have trust in others. I think the other issue that entrepreneurs have is, because they have a feeling that if they don't do it themselves, it won't get done on time or properly, or to the expectations that they would like. That leads to constantly doing things after hours or more. And at some point, in order for your business to be successful, it has to be bigger than you. And I think that you need to be able to delegate as needed in order to be successful, just like in the military, right. So that's just one other piece that I'd like to offer.


Justin Nassiri  

As you look back on your service in the Marine Corps, what would you say was the most valuable skill that you took away from the Marine Corps that's helped you at Dog Tag Brewing?

Seth Jordan  

Resiliency, you have to have that to be successful. I mean, let's face it, not everything goes well, and it doesn't go to plan all the time. So the ability to bounce back, learning when to pivot, or iterate or you make a hard decision about, “hey, something's not working,” is, I think, some of the important things that I've learned.


Justin Nassiri  

And then since you left the Marines,what has been one of the skills that you really had to develop, that you didn't really learn in the Marine Corps? But it was really crucial to starting your own company?


Seth Jordan  

Yeah, I don't know what word I would use, but I'll just describe it. It’s that, when you're in the Marine Corps, you'd have that level of expectation about your fellow Marines, right? So when you give an order, or if you're taking an order, or when you're working in a group, people just put their head down,and  do it. And you have at times, you can get pretty tough with folks, both verbally, right, and in a command presence, if you know what I mean. You can't do that in in the civilian world, right? You can't go in there and start knife handing-people and barking at them, and using kind of kind of intimidation and scare tactics with, a pretty loud voice, right? That drill sergeant type mentality, it doesn't work. And not that I'm saying that I did that. But I think it also is very tough to make sure that the expectations are there. And I think the other thing for entrepreneurs that I found, and I can give an example of this is, there's going to be people who let you down. So whether it's people you work with, your suppliers, one of your vendors, when you pay them money in exchange for their services, and they don't meet timelines, or they just fail, or they only provide 70% of what you asked for. And that level of expectation is hard to meet. Now, I'm not saying you have to accept that. But I think I just say, be prepared for that.


Justin Nassiri  

That's great. And you've been in this business now for 4+ years in startup years. That's the equivalent of like, 28 years! It's a lifetime of experience in that time. I'm wondering if you could go back in time, to four years ago, when you got out of the Marine Corps. And you are going to give yourself one piece of advice about starting your own company. I'm wondering, what do you wish you had known back then? What would you tell yourself four or five years ago?


Seth Jordan  

Well, there's a lot of different things. I think, for me, I kind of rushed into things because of the perceived notion that I had to be successful, and right away coming from the service. Especially in the Marine Corps, we're not used to failing, right, or we're used to doing well. And I think that I kind of rushed into a lot of things. And I'll be perfectly honest that we were more lucky than good in a lot of cases. And sometimes you need that. But at the same time, I just wish I had taken a little bit more time, done a little more homework. But part of the journey, I would just say, part of the journey of starting your own business, or no matter what it is, is, you will make mistakes. It's about making them small, and making sure that they're not going to be the end of your business.


Justin Nassiri  

That's such great advice. I love that. And I love I love that shift in mentality where just recognizing that mistakes are part of the territory. And, because I've thought about that a lot, where a mistake seemed catastrophic in the military. And it's just part of life on especially as an entrepreneur. But I love that thought of taking it a step further and saying, not only is it part of the journey, but my goal is to make them as small as possible. And like you said, to make sure they don't ruin the business. If that was one piece of advice I could give to a veteran right now, it’s make small mistakes, and make sure it doesn't end your business.


Seth Jordan  

Yeah, yeah. Another quote on that from a mentor guy who is like a second father to me. And has been excellent to me. And has helped my foundation and myself many ways. He shared a story with me where he has started his own business right out of high school. And about two or three years later, they were flat broke, doing the bankruptcy thing, trying to figure out a way to work with the bank. He said, he broke down crying, he was in front of the bankers and lawyers, and he said, “I'm a failure.” And the banker came up to me, said, “Son, you're not a failure, you're just broke, there's a big difference there.” I just share that story because honestly, it's one of the best pieces of advice that I've ever had. Because, trust me, every aspiring entrepreneur will be broke, or borderline broke, or feel like they're about to be broke. And that doesn't mean you're a failure. And I tell you what, you learn from these experiences. And I would also say, again, not to be preachy, but learn to find the financing so it doesn't put your entire family's life savings at jeopardy. I think that's where a lot of entrepreneurs fail. They kind of come in and say, Hey, I'm going to empty the whole bank account to do this dream. And guess what, if it doesn't work, then that's why they feel like a failure. But I think if they can get the finance in through other outlets like SBA, etc, I think that that's what I would encourage as well, spread that risk a little bit, invest in your idea. And if it didn't work out, you know what, I applaud everybody who ever took that leap.


Justin Nassiri  

I love that. I love that last piece about finding the finance tubes. I think of my own life, where, when I met my wife, I think she helped me become much more financially responsible. And in retrospect, realizing that when when I felt like I had all my finances on the line, when I felt like I didn't have a lot of financial freedom, that's a really tough spot to be creative from. That's a really tough spot to think of big ideas and big solutions, because it's more of a survival mindset. And so what I love about what you're saying is finding ways to mitigate the risk. You're already putting your entire life into this. To put your own finances or your family's finances into that, that just adds to that stress level, which I think makes it harder to come up with a lot of the creativity needed to get any new idea off the ground and bring it into life.


Seth Jordan  

Yeah, like you just said, I think we're both living proof of that. Once you make that commitment, make the commitment. And that's okay. I think that's where if you do empty out that entire piggy bank and when things are not going well, or lot of hard decisions. So in front of you, it can cloud your judgment when you're looking back about where the source of that money came. Now, that's not to say that you can't put your own skin in the game. Because we do believe in that because I think that will make make sure that you're more invested into the work that you do. But don't be afraid. The stats are out there about starting your own business. And sometimes it's, it feels daunting, and sometimes it's not in your favor. But it's about leadership and having a plan and following through, and that's something that we have an advantage as veterans that we should we should continue to use.


Justin Nassiri  

That's great. I was also wondering about Rocket Fuel. I think that's a great book. I'll put that in the show notes for this. I'm wondering if there's any other resources books, podcast, website courses, anything else that's helped you in your your post military career that you would recommend other veterans to check out?


Seth Jordan  

Back to the balance issues before. I had a healthy arrangement with my wife. We’re able to wake up early, be with our dogs, put the TV on, and it’s nice to spend like an hour or two in the morning, even on the weekend, just to kind of get caught up about what's new.  I spent a lot of time just researching, I’m pretty active on LinkedIn. I recommend all veterans get on that and use it. I admit I am a serial preemptor-LinkedIn-requester, but I tell you what, I've used it to my advantage. I don't even have a Facebook account. So I would say, get very savvy on LinkedIn. This isn't just for posting things. It's about learning how to connect with folks. And then when appropriate, to follow up on those connections. And the other side, I make a plug for good friends who are in another nonprofit doing great things. I don't know if you're familiar with the Bunker Labs. They're based out of Chicago. They've got satellite offices around the around the country. And they're really neat organization. So Todd Connor, and the founder. and that's some of the other leadership just really good people. And they've used their own experiences as accomplished entrepreneurs. And like this conversation, there's some podcast, there's some examples, it's a great networking opportunity, it's an opportunity to take a look at the business plan, punch holes in it, take a look at your pitch deck, to know what you would do when you're going to go out there and try to ask for money. And it's just great coaching, mentoring and access to resources and people, which normally would not be afforded to the average citizen, and it's specifically reserved for veterans. So I would say, take advantage of it, get on their website, find out what cities are nearby, or just pick up the phone and reach out to them and say, Hey, I'm a veteran, what do you think? And they have people who want to help us, that's the other thing. People want to help veterans, they want to see that we want to succeed, especially in the workforce and taking our own direction. So I think when you look back two generations ago, when men came home from World War 2, 50 percent of those guys started their own company or were entrepreneurs. And now that that is sad to say, probably less than 5%. And I think that that makes a big difference about how we touch the fabric of our community, not just from the work that we do, but, our outlets of the world and seen as business leaders and impacting others, not only through the work that we do, but who we are as people and leaders in the workforce. So I would just say, there's a lot of resources out there, continue to dig through that and avoid the common pitfalls. There's a lot of times where you're sitting on websites, if you're on this website for 10-15 minutes, and you can't find out how it's actually helping you move on. I think a lot of guys just get sucked into some of these traditional websites, and they don't really do much for you.


Justin Nassiri  

That's great. And it does seem like Bunker Labs is a great resource for listeners who are interested in learning more, if you look at Episode 38 with Chris Shaw, he talks about his experience starting a company, he's been involved in Bunker Labs, and I believe he's in New York, he's one of the one of the directors there in New York. So it's definitely worth listening to that episode, and checking them out, because it's a free resource and an exceptional resource for veterans.


Seth Jordan  

And the biggest thing is the access to capital too. Given that you do have a good plan in something that somebody would want to finance, I think you have a better chance to work through their channels. That doesn't mean bunker labs writes checks, but it means we might provide you access to people who will.


Justin Nassiri  

That's great. Well, I always like to end with an open ended question. And that is, knowing that you have this audience of fellow veterans, what else would you want them to know? Any other advice you'd want to pass on or anything that we didn't cover that you'd really want them to know?


Seth Jordan  

One of the most important things that I did when I got out of the Marine Corps was to get involved in philanthropy. I talked about it earlier. But I would say, I would not be where I am today, if I had just tried to build this model by myself, as an aspiring business owner. You got to get involved in your community. You have no idea how many things or how many rocks will be overturned for you. Get involved with philanthropy, it will change your mindset. Asking for money in a charity sense is only going to prepare you for asking for money when you need it for real for your business when you're ready to do that one day. And the other thing I'll say is, you’re never going to go broke by trying to help too many people. And I think that using that mentality has really enriched my life. And I define success with how many people that I've gotten to meet and to have good healthy relationships with, and I don't count how many beers we sold, or how many dollars we've raised, it's about how many people can we help with the work that we do. So it's been very inspirational for me, and I would invite every veteran. It's a good way to get you off the couch, get you connected to your community, helps set direction and there’ll be access to resources that you normally wouldn't get to.


Justin Nassiri  

I think that's such a great lens, you talked earlier about networking, how that's difficult for veterans, how it can be viewed as this dirty word. I think that that the lens and the perspective you provided of giving back helping other people, I think that that's the most accessible way for veterans to for networking is just to approach it as meeting people seeing where you can help like, how you can give back and it sounds like in your life, that's, that's what's led to a lot of these mentors, ships and advisors. I know for myself as well, like so many of the best connections I've ever had came from, just like being trying to be a decent human being and trying to help people out. I think that comes naturally to veterans. And I think that that's a great toehold a great foothold into networking, where it's not about meeting people and trying to find ways that they can help you out. Just like connecting with people trying to give back and that in general tends to lead to good things and probably feels a lot more natural for most veterans.


Seth Jordan  

Yeah, I mean, so for example, like with LinkedIn, we talked about that before is, this is about your house. This is about, hey, when you wake in with somebody, they should be asking yourself, what's the look in this person do for me, that's it. But at the exact same time, what can I do for that person, this veteran, I might know a guy who knows a gal who knows somebody and I can help them out. And guess what, you return that favor, you never know where a year or two down the line they might, they might do the same for you. So I think that that's a great mentality, the fact that we are veterans, what we tend to work, we're creatures of habit. So we kind of tend to be in the company of each other, but, use that to our advantage because a lot of guys, they might not be an entrepreneur when they might be involved in a business or working at a business that might help your business down the line. And, just very similar to what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan for those who’ve served in these two most recent wars, it's like to the fact that most of it wasn't kinetic for all of us, it was about opening roads, it was about getting schools reopened again, about getting water pumps into an area is about cleaning up the garbage. It was about a lot of different things. And that is just born out of service and no different when you get involved with philanthropy.


Justin Nassiri  

This is great. Well, for people who are listening I'm wondering, where can they learn more about Dog Tag? About the foundation? About the brewery? And if what you're saying has resonated with them, what are different ways that they can support you and your mission?


Seth Jordan  

Yeah, sure. The website is dogtagbrewing.org. We want to be known as a foundation that is doing work for the families of the fallen who are largely been neglected. And I think that we need a lot of different things. We need people's time. We need their expertise, we need their connections, and we need money. And in order to do that work, if people want to help us, please reach out, we'd love to have you onboard the team. Okay, this is a movement and the more folks we have in the fold, the better it gets.


Justin Nassiri  

Well, this is great Seth. And for listeners. I'll put all these links in the show notes. But that's  DogTagBrewing.org. There’ll be links to a video they put together talking about the organization and links to their website and different ways to get involved. So thanks so much for your time and advice.


Seth Jordan  

Oh, it was my pleasure and Semper Fidelis, always faithful.