“People hear my lessons from the CIA and they see value in those lessons being taught to their sales team or their security team or their customer service team. I’ve been able to create this life for myself because I was willing to step away from government and recognize that the world doesn’t work at a 9-5, five-days-a-week schedule. ”
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Why Listen:
There’s so much I loved about my conversation with Andrew. For those of you wanting a mental image of Andrew - picture Dwayne Johnson with hair… that’s Andrew. After five years in the Air Force, Andrew served in the CIA for seven years. Since then, he has taken the lessons he learned in the CIA and used them - for himself and his clients - to get the most out of life. If you’re interested in the CIA or entrepreneurship, there’s something in this episode for you. But no matter what your intended career path, I love two things in particular that we riff on. The first is, the sense of bringing awareness to the assumptions we make in life. For example, in that intro audio clip, Andrew is speaking to how often we assume one needs to work 9-5, Monday through Friday. When you realize that is just a myth, it gives you a considerable competitive advantage that you can exploit in your career. Andrew has all sorts of incredible mental hacks that I LOVED hearing. Second, I find that there are often judgments about people who leave the military, people who leave public service like the CIA and go on to do something different that is right for them and their family. We talk about this head on, and I believe nearly all Veterans will benefit from this part of our conversation.
If you enjoy this episode, be sure to check out BTU #337 - Entrepreneurship and Self Knowledge (Khemit Bailey) (https://beyondtheuniform.org/blog/btu-337-entrepreneurship-and-self-knowledge-khemit-bailey?rq=khemit) and BTU #328 - Struggle is What Gives Us Value (Micah Fink - Heroes & Horses) (https://beyondtheuniform.org/blog/btu-328-struggle-is-what-gives-us-value-micah-fink-heroes-horses?rq=micah%20fink), which have similar elements to this episode. both of those will be linked in the show notes.
Our Sponsor:
This episode is sponsored by the Carlson School of Management. Whether you're transitioning to a civilian career or continuing military service, an MBA from Carlson at the University of Minnesota prepares you for a high-impact career in business. Carlson is committed to the veteran community and provides the benefits, experiential learning, and network to accelerate your career. In addition to a resident tuition waiver, all admitted full-time MBA military candidates receive generous scholarships and stipends to cover expenses that may not be eligible for the GI Bill.
E-mail mba@umn.edu to learn more. That's mba@umn.edu.
Selected Resources:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-bustamante-mba-89812a10b/
https://stpetecatalyst.com/the-spy-guy-andrew-bustamantes-everyday-espionage/
https://EverydaySpy.com/veterans - free e-book for transitioning veterans
Transcript & Time Stamps:
4:20
Joining me today from Tampa, Florida is Andrew Bustamonte. Is there anything else you’d add to the biography we’ve shared?
I usually try not to be that guy that sings his own praises but I really appreciate you sharing my biography. What I would add is that being part of the CIA changed my life. What I really want to do in the world is inspire other people to take ownership of their own life.
8:00
What kind of an impact did being part of the CIA have on you?
The world is not fair. There are unfair advantages and unequal access to opportunities. Nobody talks about this. The military tries to teach you to be fair and equal. You adopt the mentality that the world is fair and good things will happen to you. I totally drank that Kool-Aid when I was in the military. When I ended up at the CIA, I thought it was because I deserved to be there and I had followed the rules to get there.
That vision was shattered during my first week with the CIA. They told us that you can gain advantages in interactions with people by understanding human nature. I got trained in every unfair advantage you can imagine. And I used those advantages to defend the Constitution of the United States.
The bad guys are not playing fair so if we try to play fair, we will lose.
13:00
You seem comfortable speaking about your experience with the CIA. Why is that?
I’m trying to live through the eyes of a spy. I honestly believe that the advantages you have as a spy can be powerful in life overall.
I try to be candid and honest with all of the people I speak with whether in a personal or professional setting. I’m one of the first former CIA officers to have conversations with people about my career. I’m not quite sure why that is. There are some things I can’t talk about from my time in the CIA, but I’m open to talk about anything else.
The President will make big decisions based on the intelligence that he or she has. So you have to do everything you can to get real, honest information from their sources.
16:40
Does the CIA shame you at all for being so open?
When I was in the CIA, it was frowned upon for former CIA officers to leave the organization and then write books or be a public presence in any way. But we’re really not helping by shaming people. Just because someone decides to take a different path, that’s not a bad thing.
At the CIA, there are people who work day and night to keep the country safe. When someone leaves, they often get shamed. I think a lot of that is because everyone else realizes that the person leaving has the opportunity to start a new life with a better work/life balance. It really has nothing to do with that individual. Often it comes from a place of shame where you may be taking a step that they are afraid to take.
23:20
How do you explain what you do?
I take private intelligence contracts all over the world. I’m in a place where I can just take contracts that specifically interest me and leave the others behind.
I also have a popular podcast called Everyday Espionage. I give talks to corporate groups as well - sharing information with them about how to read and react to situations.
One thing I’ve realized is that the world really doesn’t work on a 9 to 5 schedule. We try to force ourselves into the Monday to Friday, 9 to 5 schedule. So I have periods where I’ll be working long, intense days. And then I’ll have multiple weeks completely off. I’m able to create a schedule that works for me.
When I graduated from the Air Force Academy in 2003, I was invited to stay at the Academy after graduation as an instructor in the physical education department. That department was being commanded by a Naval Officer. The tasks that were given to me could be done in 2-3 hours even though the Academy day was 8 hours long. So I would use that time to work out and take additional classes. But the Naval Officer confronted me and told me that I needed to be at my desk 8 hours a day. To me, that was a broken mentality. We get indoctrinated into the idea that we have to be at a desk for a particular amount of time even if there are other ways your job could be done better or more effectively.
31:40
What advice do you have around how to create a work schedule that works for you?
Think about information as objectivity vs. subjectivity. Objective is fact based while subjective is emotion based .
A principle I learned at the CIA is the concept of balance. Balance is not a permanent state, it’s constantly in flux. Most of us play things too conservatively. What the CIA taught us is to push past that to the edge of discomfort. If you don’t push yourself past the point of comfort, you’ll never learn what you're capable of.
The reason why I’m OK taking long periods of time off from work is because it’s balanced by very intense periods of work. It’s not a vacation where I’m atrophying - it’s a recovery from those periods of intense work.
The truth is that veterans have unlimited potential when they leave the military. But often they limit themselves. The people who change the world are those that break out of the confines of what is accepted or deemed to be normal.
When people tell you that you can’t pursue a particular career path, that’s subjective-based. It’s just their feeling, it’s not based on any fact.
What I try to teach with Everyday Spy is how to use subjectivity to your advantage during a negotiation. A negotiation is just convincing the other party that they should take your suggested action because it will be better for them. In order to do that, you have to know what matters to the other party and be willing to work with that.
50:20
Is there anything else you’d like to share with our listeners?
When I left the CIA to work for CVS Health, I had a friend that recommended me to the hiring manager there. They were considering me for a very specific role. When they offered me the job, it was paid 10% less than I was getting at the CIA. The benefits package was mediocre. I accepted the position on the condition that I could work from anywhere I wanted. It wasn’t even anything they had considered before. But after they did that for me, they became much more open to the idea of virtual work for other people as well. That allowed them to attract more competitive candidates. So that’s just another example of how it just takes one person to push things in a different direction to change the perception of what’s possible.
When I launched Everyday Spy, my first event was at an art studio in downtown St. Petersburg. The Tampa Bay Tribune was covering our event because it was so interesting. The event was completely sold out. That showed me that there really was demand for this kind of training. I also use this story to tell people not to be afraid to take chances in their career and their life.